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sorry sports debate again
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| bobby |
Posted on 09-01-2009 13:35
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Posts: 844
Joined: 22.02.08
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from the minutes of agm
Race Categories:
There was the request that the Sports category be better managed in order to automatically promote faster riders to a more senior category so that beginners would not be overly disillusioned by their race experience where faster riders would be finishing significantly ahead of the rest of the field. The Commission accepted this as an item of importance and will work on a plan.
surely that is what we have tried to do all along?
and by not turning the sports race into slightly easier expert race by incresing the severity or distance of the sports courses..lobbied for by experienced MTB riders [maybe 8-10 years of riding]
There is No easy solution to the promotion of faster riders. |
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| iTripped |
Posted on 09-01-2009 14:00
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Posts: 225
Joined: 19.02.08
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Heckling and shaming them to ride a higher class is the solution. Riddicule is a strong motivator.
Full Sus, yer only man...! |
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| mtbireland |
Posted on 09-01-2009 14:12
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Posts: 1329
Joined: 16.02.08
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Change the name sports to beginners... or fun.... and shorten it a bit... and take out the dangerious stuff..... a lot of people moved to a different class when we did this before just so they could ride the full course..... Experts needs a bit of life injected into it and I think that will come from Sports people moving up....
Biking is good for you....... |
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| GregMay |
Posted on 09-01-2009 14:16
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Posts: 579
Joined: 08.10.08
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I think a move to make the sports/fun class easier would drive people up. Which would make the Experts class better for all concerned |
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| SwordsCC |
Posted on 09-01-2009 15:34
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Posts: 13
Joined: 11.12.08
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Points Points Points.
You could get points for your placing in each race.
If you acquire the sufficient number of points You move up.
Sports To Expert.
Experts To Elite.
With masters and vets based on your age (over 30 & over ?40).
If you wish to be downgraded, because you have a valid reason (sickness, injury, missed a season, missus is up the duff, etc), you should have to apply to some sort of committee, who will consider your application.
Cycling Ireland keeps a record of race points for all roadies. Its on the website. Points are retained on your road licence for 2 years.
Could they do the same for mtbers? |
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| Richie Byrne |
Posted on 09-01-2009 15:49
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Posts: 199
Joined: 18.02.08
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I think thats the plan ,Dave..I hate this debate..Sports covers loads of types of rider ad the only people who ever get in to a row over it are the people it doesn't effect. I have to admit I have absolutely no time for the Sports banger goobers with the carbon bikes, HR monitors and the steely gaze.
I do think its cool to see the FR ( baggies,Camelbacks and 6" bikes ) people in the Sports, they kill themselves for the 2 laps.
They make it relevant.
Theres nothing as pure as the age cats though.
Masters this year will be a scream..Oisin Boydell ,Alfie Wallace to name two..anyway happy Friday people, just be glad none of us are in sports !!
Whoa, are they my feet ????? |
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| fergalk |
Posted on 09-01-2009 17:58
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Posts: 192
Joined: 30.03.08
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yes Robin - definitely no easy/obvious solution but Dave's suggestion sounds good-
what does 'Sports' mean anyway?
'Beginners' makes more sense, and make it a bit easier, catering to REAL beginners, not the steely gazers as Richie calls them
I think that will make 'Beginners' less attractive to the more experienced biker, and make them move up, without being nagged by someone else to do so
the OffRoad Commission isn't going to make these decisions without your help/input, so thanks for bringing it up, & sharing ideas etc..
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| bobby |
Posted on 09-01-2009 18:13
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Posts: 844
Joined: 22.02.08
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yeah Dave is right, points league is the fairest way.
except....
-its virtually impossible to enforce [been there]
-doesn't take into account that sports riders[even the quick ones] don't necessarily ride all races, plus category has lots of newbies
so its been left free to let riders decide which category they choose t ride
ie a short sports race, maybe on a shortened course
or medium length expert master veteran
the riders i'd like to see doing sports are not free riders on 6" travel bikes but people who want to try the sport of mtb and ride a €500 mtb from halfords
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| squeak |
Posted on 09-01-2009 18:33
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Posts: 267
Joined: 20.02.08
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i'll stay amach of this one haha |
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| stewart c |
Posted on 10-01-2009 19:18
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Posts: 34
Joined: 07.07.08
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I think a new category needs to be brought in. the step from sport to say, masters, is too big (in my opinion). I race masters, yet always struggle, and finish back of the field, yet I don't want to race sports, as it is too short, and aimed at beginners. If there was a beginner class, and sports became harder, then people would have an option to progress in bite sized chunks. |
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| squeak |
Posted on 10-01-2009 21:10
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Posts: 267
Joined: 20.02.08
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In the UK the sports category is seriously competitive...the top sports riders are like top 10 experts and the top experts are like top 15/20 elites...
so a FUN category really needs to be brought in! |
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| Richie Byrne |
Posted on 10-01-2009 22:20
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Posts: 199
Joined: 18.02.08
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Hi Paul,that was tried several times..absolutely nobody will race in a fun class..
But lads, and don't take this personally, the place to discuss this was at the AGM. Not on the Internet where people can take each other up the wrong way and all sorts of misunderstandings can happen.
Its there in plain English in the minutes of the AGM, that the Commission is responsible for the organisation of the Sport in Ireland, so why don't we let them at it or at the very least give them our opinions in person .
Richie
Edited by Richie Byrne on 10-01-2009 22:36
Whoa, are they my feet ????? |
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| feed |
Posted on 11-01-2009 01:02
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Posts: 7
Joined: 19.05.08
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I's suggest (though I'm sure it's been suggested before) that you should only be allowed to race 'sports' for one season. Perhaps a new category for those who've had their one season, still want to race, but don't want to (or will never be able to) side up with the big dogs. |
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| bobby |
Posted on 11-01-2009 17:54
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Posts: 844
Joined: 22.02.08
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i'd prefer to take Fergal's view on this Richie,
"the OffRoad Commission isn't going to make these decisions without your help/input, so thanks for bringing it up, & sharing ideas etc.."
I don't take anybody up the wrong way on this forum. If someone does then that would be their problem surely?
As an occasional race promoter I do like getting feedback on this topic...[and any other race topics], re courses, length of sports race or riders riding out of category or whatever.
And I'd always be looking to try and improve the race experience.
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| Philip |
Posted on 11-01-2009 19:27
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Posts: 141
Joined: 19.02.08
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squeak wrote:
i'll stay amach of this one haha
A bit off topic, but.....
Will you stay amach, or will you stay amuigh. I do get confused as to which is to be used in conjunction with a verb and which is used as a description of location.
Maybe one of the sites many Irish speakers can remind me,
but I think you'd probably stay amuigh (fan amuigh), and go amach (tar amach).
ANyway, lets get back on topic.... |
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| Richie Byrne |
Posted on 11-01-2009 20:00
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Posts: 199
Joined: 18.02.08
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Robin, you are a race promoter par excellence, I love your races, we would be in quare shite without them. you're hardly an occasional race organiser,you inspire the rest of us, we would have no XC scene without you and Team-Worc.
I just think that this is the wrong place to discuss this. But if people are going to , fcuk it so will i.
But seeing as I am also an occasional race organiser, I have one idea for Sports and thats two sports categories.
Sports A for the bangers and and the like of alan ryan , who fly in from Hong Kong every year for one race.
and a B category for the Halfords riders and the free riders.
I have a lot of experience with sports class riders.. they make up the bulk of the EPIC club league.
i want everybody to have a good racing experience, we allowed the Sports to do the same race as all the other senior categories in Djouce and they loved it.
Sure we had a couple of bangers, they know who they are, I personally gave them grief. And we had a big laugh about it.
We ran a hardcore XC type race in Djouce, in the sports category there were all kids of bikes , riders and everybody loved it.
We got 180 entries and not one single person complained to me.
I also recieved tons of emails thanking me for letting the sports riders race the whole loop.
i refuse to treat them as incapapable of doing the full loop.
The lads winning them by miles are only kidding themselves. I would like to hear from actual Sports class riders. Not us who would never be allowed race sports.
Richie
Edited by Richie Byrne on 11-01-2009 20:04
Whoa, are they my feet ????? |
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| Paddy D8 |
Posted on 11-01-2009 20:32
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Posts: 121
Joined: 20.07.08
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could work Ritchie , two spports cats
Fun/beginner Sports
One idea for this is the first lap is guided/neutralised and then you let them off - install some confidence
And standard Sports as per usual
Or else
Just call it Fun Cat and soon the non sports will get the message and move up a cat |
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| Richie Byrne |
Posted on 11-01-2009 21:14
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Posts: 199
Joined: 18.02.08
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Thats cool Paddy, but we did try a Fun Cat before and it was a disaster nobody entered.
I think we should start the season with The Djouce trail Challenge and work everybodys categories out with that !!
I'm just glad I'm in an age category.
I only have one problem with the sports and that the bangers who won't enter the right senior category.
its like this, we have Downhillers and Sunday spinners who won't enter XC races because they would be expected to ride Vets or masters, they know they would get hammered. firstly because they don't have XC bikes, just heavy 6"ncers and DH bikes. They'd love to get in on the craic at the XC races but they won't because in the past they have been told to race Vets and masters..and gotten destroyed.
Vets and masters are some of the most savage XC racing going..
picture Peter Buggle, Aidan mcDonald and the Mccabes.
I'm an experienced racer , racing as long as anybody in the country and i finish 18th in vets..i kill myself trying to get 18th.
I could maybe win sports..maybe.
but I wouldn't ride sports.
Imagine the abuse.
The same goes for all of us off the pace.
You should only really get one race as sports. then you train your pink arse off in your category.
i think that would be best.
Some of us remember a time when we had no senior category other than senior.
No vets,sports, masters, experts.Just seniors, juniors and underage.
and i'm nearly sure i remember attendences of over 100 riders at races.
In fact i'm positive. i remember a time when it was either Robin versus dalby and Robin vs Joe Barr..or Robin versus Joe or Robin versus Giller.
but don't take my word for it, get a time machine !!
Whoa, are they my feet ????? |
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| john_tomac |
Posted on 12-01-2009 10:40
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Posts: 284
Joined: 18.02.08
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same ol same ol........I dont think another class is the answer, not enough riders. Shaming those who dont move up is the way forward, eggs and tomatoes etc.
There is also the problem where a new rider legitimately enters sports at the start of the season, gets good quickly, and then stays there for the year. |
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| heald |
Posted on 12-01-2009 10:48
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Posts: 151
Joined: 28.02.08
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I don't get this - you could introduce 1001 different catagories for all the different types of rider and your still going to get bangers.
It would just get harder for the organisers to keep track in a race, never mind race to race.
So why bother worrying about it?
It's not a proper race, thats the masters/vets/elites and stuff. You could bring in loads of rules and regs to "force" people up to the proper racing but I bet those bangers that are forced up a level where they are not in their comfort zone/winning will either leave or race less races. You might get the odd one that goes the full hog but that will be the exception rather than the rule.
No point reducing rider numbers over who is in sports, or maybe it's just my perception of sports not being an proper "race".
As for the other eternal question about should sports do the full lap - for me its about the fitness level of the course rather then the skill level (as you'd expect from a very casual rider). If it's wet and muddy getting to the top of the rock descent at kilruddery twice is a killer - I dunno if it's because it's all open and exposed (allowing you to see the person 400yds in front) compared to eeking my way past trees.
For the fit lads it's a way of spreading them out a bit before the groovy descent. Surely it's course specific, as it's always been done past.
All these things do is go around and around in circles with specific examples being brought out to re-inforce peoples ideas, with someone giving another example that proves a different idea. Every time before the start of the seasons racing  . Your always going to have trouble making a course that fits both casuals like myself and top sportsmen, that just introducing extra laps is not going to fix. Some courses do it a bit better than others, but that's half the joy of going to races for me. |
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